30-06 Sprg. QL request

[longrangehunter]

So I'm doing a friends son-in-laws 30-06 Ruger.

22" BBL.
Sierra 180 gr Game King
W760
@3.3100" COAL

So I'm looking for the node for a 22" Barrel with this powder. Any help would be great!

Thanks in Advance.

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .30-06 Spring.  (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Sierra SPBT 2160 G7 Litz
Useable Case Capaci: 60.653 grain H2O = 3.938 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.310 inch = 84.07 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Winchester 760

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   87    51.66   2493    2484   42586   9856     94.3    1.288
-09.0   88    52.23   2521    2540   44009   9974     94.8    1.269
-08.0   89    52.81   2549    2597   45486  10089     95.2    1.249
-07.0   90    53.38   2577    2654   47018  10201     95.7    1.231
-06.0   91    53.96   2605    2712   48596  10310     96.1    1.212
-05.0   92    54.53   2633    2771   50222  10415     96.5    1.194
-04.0   93    55.10   2661    2830   51896  10517     96.9    1.176  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   94    55.68   2689    2890   53625  10615     97.2    1.159  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   95    56.25   2717    2950   55414  10709     97.6    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   96    56.83   2745    3011   57265  10799     97.9    1.125  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   97    57.40   2773    3073   59180  10885     98.2    1.108  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   98    57.97   2801    3135   61162  10967     98.5    1.092  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    58.55   2828    3197   63214  11045     98.7    1.076  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    59.12   2856    3260   65339  11118     98.9    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    59.70   2884    3324   67540  11187     99.1    1.045  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    60.27   2911    3388   69821  11251     99.3    1.030  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     97    57.40   2903    3367   71116  10642    100.0    1.027  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     97    57.40   2597    2695   47729  10551     92.0    1.216

 

[longrangehunter]

Thanks Mike........ well OBT for a 22" BBl would lay right at node #4 @ 1.030..... screaming hot! So how does that work then?

#1 .790
#2 .840
#3 .980
#4 1.030

I'll need to see if I can find the b time for 5,6, or maybe a 7 node.

I see they've changed a bit:

#1 .7502
#2 .8235
#3 .9386
#4 1.0126
#5 1.1270
#6 1.2018
#7 1.3153

 

[longrangehunter]

56.5-56.83 would or appears to be at node #5 @ 1.1270.

Thanks Mike!

 

[longrangehunter]

I looked back at some old data I had for another Ruger 30-06 Sprg. and this very same bottle ran 2,600 fps @ 54.0 grains of W760, which is super close to your QL data showing 53.96 @ 2,605 fps.

This should work well then.

 

[preacher]

I'm curious- are you just pressed for time and want an accurate load to start out ( or great chance of it anyhow) or is there a reason 2600fps is chosen? I used 57gr IMR4350/BR2 with the Sierra 180PH in an old 1917 Enfield with the barrel cut back to 24" for years, made a ragged hole for groups. I was using Remington cases. I never clocked it, but I got a lot of loads out of it. Of course I know 2600/180 will kill everything he shoots at, ha, but I'd be inclined to want 2700+ if I could get it. I want all the case design will give me and still be able to get several loads out of a case. Good luck, and I wished I was up there hunting with you guys instead of working, ha.

 

[longrangehunter]

I'm curious- are you just pressed for time and want an accurate load to start out ( or great chance of it anyhow) or is there a reason 2600fps is chosen? I used 57gr IMR4350/BR2 with the Sierra 180PH in an old 1917 Enfield with the barrel cut back to 24" for years, made a ragged hole for groups. I was using Remington cases. I never clocked it, but I got a lot of loads out of it. Of course I know 2600/180 will kill everything he shoots at, ha, but I'd be inclined to want 2700+ if I could get it. I want all the case design will give me and still be able to get several loads out of a case. Good luck, and I wished I was up there hunting with you guys instead of working, ha.

I will run it a lot faster then 2,600. That was the only data I had tested that same lot powder with in a 30-06 and using that same bullet. I just need to know if the QL was close enough, I was a little pressed for time. I just put twenty together at 55.0...... had I saw Mikes post I would have made them at 56.5 since I was headed in that direction anyway. We're going to shoot them this weekend and maybe I'll reload them again and use 56.5-56.8 grains just for kicks!?!

 

[longrangehunter]

I shot the load over the P35, 55.5 W760 -2673 fps @ 8' from the muzzle since they were off hand. Pretty much what I expected since the data I had seemed to match what you put up Mike from QL.

He shot a great group prone off the bipod @ 100 yards but ran into a snag..... major issue IMO. A few pieces of ammo 4 out of twenty didn't want to chamber very easily? I closed the bolt on the first hard one, and it wouldn't extract! Pushed it out with a rod, and measured it, Everything seems to check out, and these were only once fired FC brass, and I'm not sure what's going on with those 4 pieces I found after running them all through the chamber.

Maybe the chamber not being in line with the axis of the bore? It shot well though. I resized the two pieces of brass that got stuck in the chamber and used the standard shell holder vs. my Redding Comp. Shell holder that are in .002" increments i.e. +.002"; .004"; .006": .008"; .010" I first used the +.008" and hand tested them in the chamber for partial resizing..... well they weren't falling out like new brass, but I could close the bolt without any trouble so I went and loaded them up.

I used my Redding Type-S F/L sizing die with the die in full contact with a standard shell holder, even so cam over, and a .332 bushing.

A Loaded round measured .334", and the necks are plenty big after firing .340". The body above the case heads all measured .4675" after going through the sizing die, and a fired case...... it's just the ones that got stuck in the chamber, still wouldn't chamber in the gun after resizing again..... so what gives? I check headspace bump back and that was good too.

The only thing I can think of is his chamber on the small size, and my die on the big size? I may check it with another RCBS F/F die I used for his father-in-laws 30-06, which the sized brass would just fall out of his Savage.

This gun is a older tang safety Ruger M77....... which BTW I noticed weren't controlled round feed! Who would machine them that way in the first place? The claw has to ride over the extraction groove rather then pop under it once it leaves the mag box...... what a joke I thought? The MKII fixed that issue, but I still can't figure out what's the issue unless it's a under sized chamber?

Oh, and before I got started I measured the length of the throat with these bullets, and the bullets are .0100" off the lands! So they aren't jammed into the land since the throat is cut that long.

 

[Guy Miner]

Were these once-fired cases from that rifle, or from another?

They're trimmed to proper length and full-length resized?

Oh, and re those old tang-safety Ruger 77's - I had one for years and always thought it was pretty funny that it was a push-feed, that looked like a CRF rifle. Didn't really matter to me, just amused me.

Guy

 

[longrangehunter]

Were these once-fired cases from that rifle, or from another?

They're trimmed to proper length and full-length resized?

Oh, and re those old tang-safety Ruger 77's - I had one for years and always thought it was pretty funny that it was a push-feed, that looked like a CRF rifle. Didn't really matter to me, just amused me.

Guy

Yes, these were once fired Federal brass in the same rifle.

They were NOT trimmed, but measured right to trim to length plus or minus .010". I partially Full Length sized them so I wasn't overworking the brass since we were going to use them again. I did however inserted 3-4 pieces in the gun to check for function and yes there was a little resistance while closing the bolt.

This is what I loaded up, 20 pieces in all, 4 of which were later found not to chamber without a lot of downward force to close the bolt. One was fired through the gun, and we found the bolt would open but not extract. I even tested one of these over the P35 which was within the expected velocity range, and no it too would not extract. Nor would those two same pieces of brass after I resized them in the die fully to the shell holder in a F/L die. Basically whatever is going on, these 4 pieces of brass, won't function properly, and these were not hot rodded ammo at 2,673 fps.

 

[preacher]

I would just chalk it up to the Federal brass, especially once-fired stuff. Go to Winchester or Remington, Nosler, Norma, etc and you should be fine. If the chamber IS on the small size, well, then a small base FL sizing die may be called for? I think your load is very moderate, certainly not on the hot side. I personally like .025 to .030 from the lands for hunting loads and have had very good luck starting out the mono bullets (168 TTSX, etc) .100 off the lands! But I have never had good results with Federal brass...its just too soft for my use. Good luck to you pard.

 

[longrangehunter]

Thanks Preacher! Years ago I used Federal brass in my 7mm-08 without any issues. These were from their Fusion Line.

I asked the owner of the gun if he wanted more ammo to just go buy a bag of Winchester Brass at North 40, and I'd load him up another 20 rounds with what I have on hand. He's young, married, and lives paycheck to paycheck. Hence why I offered to help him load up some ammo for hunting season this week.

We'll see, hopefully the 16 pieces he has will function flawlessly as they should without the major issues we had at the range. I ran them all through his gun, and I think he'll be fine.