Youth rifle suggestions

What would you pick for a pre-teen girl and boy to get into deer/predator hunting before they can fit a larger stocked rifle?

So far, here are a couple combos that I'm thinking about but welcome anything else from you guys that have been there, done that!

6.8 SPC, 243, or 260 Ruger Compact (12.5" LOP, 16.5" barrel
- concerned about muzzle blast outside of 6.8 option)

Remington 700 SPS Youth 243 (12.3" LOP, 20" barrel)

243, 6.5x55, or 260 Encore (own 2 frames) cut down barrel to 20" and cut down and size stock to custom fit and LOP

Your experience, suggestions please

YS. My boy shoots a M700 243 youth model. Rifle is very accurate and really versatile. Shoots the light varmint bullets well and can really step up to big game with 100 grain PTs or 90gr ETs. If I was to buy another rifle today for him or my daughter it would be the M70 Compact. Much better rifle for the money. Scotty

I can speak from a lot of looking over the past couple of years. There are a number of decent youth offerings out there. I ended up in a special situation because I have a left-hand shooting son, due to eye dominance, so I went with the Browning A-Bolt II Micro Hunter. He hasn't been to the range yet with it, so I can't speak to the realities of shooting it, but it seems to fit well enough.

If I were looking for a right-handed shooter, and I handloaded, I'd sure consider the Howa Youth model. It's a 20" barreled, short action rifle, in a variety of the 308Win family of chamberings, including at least the 243Win, 7mm-08Rem, and 308Win. It also comes with two Hogue stocks - a youth length, and an adult length. So you won't be shooting a "short" rifle if you decide to borrow it, and the gun can grow with your son or daughter when necessary. If you handload, you can create pretty accurate reduced recoil loads using Hodgdon's "Youth Load" information, and get recoil down to 10lbs and under, with deer-capable bullets. Well below that can be accomodated if you're using varmint bullets in a 243Win. I'd suggest the 7mm-08 as a good starting point, as you can load up some 120gr Nosler Ballistic Tips or one of the lighter TSX's, and launch them at 2500fps, giving you better than 200yds performance on deer and the ability to "move up" without buying a new rifle in a year or two, by just switching out to 140gr bullets and throttling up the loadings nearer to full capacity.

If I were faced with the choice of chambering, it would again be hard for me not to want the 7mm-08, but if there is a lot of varminting, you could go with the 243Win and for just about all of the white-tail hunting and most of the mule deer hunting (so I am told on the muleys) you'd be in good shape, provided the youth can place a bullet. That applies to just about any chambering, though, as a 308Win to the gut is going to lose a lot of deer just like the 243, and the 243 will shoot through the shoulder of a white-tail with the right bullets (Partition, AccuBond, E-Tip, Interbond, TTSX, etc.).

The Encore offers a versatility factor, and a safety factor over a bolt gun, but it does cost them any follow-up shots. Overall, I considered the Encore and decided against it because it was more expensive to get one and cut the stock down and so forth. In your case, you already have much of what you'd need. They do make youth butt stocks for the Encore, I believe, as well. It also offers the ability to swap out to a 20ga shotgun when birdhunting, and keep all the same familiar controls and shouldering.

Decisions, decisions!

The Remington youth models come with a 1" spacer system to take it out to 13.5" LOP. I will be buying Nolan youth models in .223 (the camo stock model), .243, and 7-08 eventually. I figure I will put Leupy 4x33 scopes on the .243 and 7-08, and a 6x36 on the .223.

I just hope he doesn't turn out to be left handed. Well, I guess I could restock them for me!

Additional thought... Remington also makes an M7 youth in .243 and 7-08. I bet you could buy a stock for one of them and drop a .260 barreled action in it.

I think Winchester is now making a compact FWT in .243 and 7-08.

Randy, NEF now makes a 6 position collapsible stocks for the little single shot I picked up when you scored your RUM. I'll probably add a .270 Win .308 and a 20 gauge barrel. It's nothing too fancy, so I don't care if it gets dinged by the kids, and a single shot is not a bad thing when you are teaching them to make every shot count. Recoil from a 125gr NBT in the .308 should be mind, especially with a moderate hand load, and sufficent for deer an antelope.

Here's another option. CDNN has the Smith and Wesson I-bolts in 30.06 for 299.99. With shipping and transfer fee's you could order on in, and pick it up at TJ's in Aurora for $346.97
See page 45
http://site.cdnninvestments.com/CDNN2011-1/index.html
Cut down the stock, load it with 125gr BT's, mount it with a fixed power scope, and call it a day.

They also have some good deals on the Howa's, on page 51.

The .243 likely makes for a better dual varmiter/deer rig. I would opt for the Encore with a proper fit (LOP) stock, you can always shim it back up. With a 20" tube you mention, makes for a short compact, somewhat lighter, and possibily better balanced rig for the beginer. Teach the importance of taking time on trigger control, breathing and the other shooting fundamentals, then to make the first shot count. But the either of the other 2 rounds would be good for starters too.

Dave

Thanks for all the ideas you've given me so far. Truth be told, I've got a few years to get it sorted out but it's kind of fun thinking about the ultimate kid gun already lol. The modified encore may be the cheapest route but could also turn into the most expensive route when they start getting into my stash of barrels down the road ha ha. I'm getting ready to deploy next month and thinking when I get back it will be time to get a cricket or TC hotshot 22LR and a red ryder or two come Christmas.

YS, I kind of forgot to mention this and I think it is worth saying and goes along with what Dubyam said. I totally had a brain fart when I first posted. If I had to do it all over again, I would likely get my son a 270 Win, 30-06 or something else of similar sized case, or heck a 280. Reason being is with all of the excellent reduced youth load data available, it is very easy to get soft recoiling loads for them, AND, they can really grow into them. A cheap wood or plastic stock would allow them to have a youth style stock, but the adult stock could be swapped as they grew. I bought my son the 243 and now, if he wants to hunt larger game with me, such as black bear or even elk, he will need to raid my safe and use one of my rifles (fine with me, but a point). If I had of gotten him any of the others in the 06 based case, he would have enough for any of them, heck, even a 7RM can be downloaded easy enough. I am sure we all want to get our kids a good start, but I think I would have done it differently if I had to do again. The 243, 7-08 and even the 308 are marginal for elk or bear for all but medium ranges. Just my opinion, but I think it makes decent sense, cause in reality, if given a 27-280-30/06 the kid is set for life and can then fend for himself. Scotty

Oh, here is a picture of my boys youth rifle, it is a deer killer without a doubt, but I wouldn't want him faced off with a black bear at 15 yards on the ground with it. Well, I would have my 45-70 backing him up, but that is besides the point!

My fisrt rifle was a rem model 7 in 7mm-08. I was a very small 12year-old and it fit me great. My cousin's 8 year-old daughter used it to kill her first deer. You don't want to get them anything to big as it will likely cause flinching. One of my good friend's dad bought him an '06 when he was ten. To this day he can't hit the broad side of a barn. I was watching him and he flinches every time. Just food for thought :wink:

For my youngest, I put my regular 22" 6mm Rem 700 into a Rem youth stock. It worked great! Cushy recoil pad, and it fit him. A couple of years later when he sprouted up, we put the rifle back in the original full size stock. All's well.

A few years back in the "youth" stock with his first deer:


And '09, seconds before shooting another mule deer doe, with the rifle in the full size stock:


The "kids" don't stay small very long...

I started with a .270 Win when I was 12. Dad put the biggest recoil pad on it he could, and I was just fine. Shot 90gr Sierra's for prarie dogs, 130gr solid base for deer, and 150gr partitions for elk. It was all the rifle I needed for a long time. I never did lengthen the stock. Except for the scope, it's the same today as it was the first day I shot it. It might be a tad bit short for me, but after 30 years shooting it, I don't really notice it.

beretzs":1zdyawk4 said:

The 243, 7-08 and even the 308 are marginal for elk or bear for all but medium ranges.

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I'm gonna have to mildly disagree with you here. The elk that I hunt are generally spikes or cows (thank you ODFW) and I wouldn't have any problem taking a whack at one with a 7-08 or .308 with good bullets... NAB, NPT, e-Tips, or even a TSX. Heck, load a .260 up with 140s, and I'd use that, too. At least in my situation, it's pretty unlikely that Nolan will be hunting trophy bulls until he's big enough to pick his own rifle.

And a 200 pound black near is pretty big in these parts... and he'd have the old man backing him up with some sort of cannon.

BK. You are right. I know all the ones you mentioned are all decent enough cartridges for elk but I just err on the side of too much as long as it is shootable and accurate by the shooter. Nothing wrong at all with them but my choice for my son with an elk would be my 338wm with a brake shooting 180gr ab's that feels like a 243! Best of both worlds and just my personal hangup with larger than deer game. Scotty

Remember that the 308 family of cartridges is all but equal to the -06 family. It's safe to say they are 98% if the longer versions. I'd surely never take a 280Rem after game I could not kill with a 7mm-08, or a 30-06 in lieu of a 308Win. I suspect there's not much difference in the two families, if you averaged out all the rifles in each chambering.

That said, I have zero problems taking a 243Win after deer an such, but I'd want at least a very fast .257cal or a 6.5 or bigger for black bear or elk. Of course, Guy's deadshot son smacked a nice cow elk with his 6mmRem this past season, so maybe I'm over cautious?

"Guy's deadshot son smacked a nice cow elk with his 6mmRem this past season"

Hmmm. That was somebody else, my son has never shot an elk. Or he never told me about it... Maybe I better go check the freezer again! :grin:

I believe it was 6mm Remington's son that shot the elk.

http://www.noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14075&p=101606#p101606

dubyam":n64bhc5t said:

That said, I have zero problems taking a 243Win after deer an such, but I'd want at least a very fast .257cal or a 6.5 or bigger for black bear or elk. Of course, Guy's deadshot son smacked a nice cow elk with his 6mmRem this past season, so maybe I'm over cautious?

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W, No, I don't think you are being overly cautious. For elk, I like to see a 140gr Bullet at 2750+. In a .270 Win, with a good recoil pad, this is a suprisingly mild recoil load. Of course a 150gr+ bullet at 3000+ is even better.

Guy Miner":3gguj4oa said:

"Guy's deadshot son smacked a nice cow elk with his 6mmRem this past season"

Hmmm. That was somebody else, my son has never shot an elk. Or he never told me about it... Maybe I better go check the freezer again! :grin:

Click to expand...

I stand corrected. Sorry for the confusion.

I knew a neighbor of a guy who knew somebody else yada yada who supposedly poached elk with headshots from a .22-250. I hear about people using .243s, 6mms, and .257 Roberts for elk pretty frequently. Doesn't mean I'd do it, but I think elk are made to be enormous, bulletproof animals. As I said, unless you are hunting trophy bulls, I don't think you need a cannon for them.

That being said, I'm looking for a cannon for elk... .338 Win Mag, .340 Weatherby or .375 H&H/Ruger. (Do as I say, not as I do!)